In the Presence of Others

Here is an email we recently received:

My wife and I are newly weds and both have a large sexual appetite as well as being rather liberal which is why we love your site so much. We however don’t see the problem with having same room sex with other couples. In other words we have sex with our spouse but in the same room as other married couples doing the same. There is never any touching and my wife and I do not lust after the other couples. It simply heightens our pleasure and love to one another. What are other users thoughts on this?

I’ll let others chime in with their own comments at the end of this article, but for now, I’ll tell you what my thoughts are on this.

Hebrews 13:4 (NIV)
4Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

God commands us to honor the marriage bed between a husband and wife, and keep it pure. Inviting other people into your bedroom is not keeping it pure. It doesn’t matter that you aren’t physically touching these other people. Any time you are watching other people have sex, either in person, on tv, or even in your own mind… that is inviting others to become a part of your marriage bed, and that is immoral.

Engaging in this type of activity will also make it easier in the future, for you both to wonder about other things, such as swapping, having a “swinging” or “open” marriage, and group sex. All of those are sinful activities. It doesn’t matter if you both are consenting.

You said: “It simply heightens our pleasure and love to one another.” I do not understand this statement at all. How can watching other people have sex heighten the love that you feel for your spouse? That makes absolutely no sense to me. I can see how it would arouse you and make you horny, but that has nothing to do with the love you feel for your spouse.

My husband loves me and cherishes me. He does not want any other man to see my nakedness. My body is for him alone and his body is for me. If he wanted us to have sex in rooms with other couples having sex, it would make me feel cheap and degraded. It would make me wonder why I alone wasn’t good enough for him.

I would ask you both to really think about why you are doing this. You say you aren’t lusting, so then what is the point in doing this at all? Why the need to have others share in what should be the most intimate, loving, and private act between a husband and wife?

These are my thoughts on this issue, and I encourage anyone who wants to contribute to this discussion to leave your comments in the box below.

46 Comments

  1. I whole heartedly agree. The marriage bed is to be Holy and Sacred. If God intended others to be inlvolved in anyway He would have said it was OK. I don’t believe He does. Thank you for bringing this to light cumingirl. Too many marroages have been ruined and or damaged from sexual immorality. i counsel women whose husbands are involved or were involded in porn and this email reminds me so much of some of my students. God intended sex and the marraige bed to be just between husband and wife and NO ONE else.

  2. Yeah this quote threw me too: “It simply heightens our pleasure and love to one another.”

    The only way it could heighten ones pleasure was if they were mentally involving them in the experience which IS lust…. When another couple is there and the fact that they are there makes you feel hornier, you can not convince me that you are fully focused on your own spouse.

  3. I don’t buy it. How could anyone watch others engaged in sex acts, while doing the same, and not lust? Would anyone buy it if the revelation was, “I like to watch hardcore pornography, but I don’t lust, it only heightens my love for my wife?” Here’s the rub, in case the laws of sexual physics don’t apply to this dude and he is not lusting while having sex in front of others doing the same, he is still committing the sin of causing others to lust. If the others are Christians, the Bible says it would be BETTER for him to tie a millstone around his neck and cast himself into the sea. See Mark 9:42. Causing others (especially believers) to sin is DANGEROUS.

  4. It seems you are saying being naked is a sin?: King David danced naked before the Lord in the city because he was overwhelmed by his love for God and He was considered loved by God. Nowhere does it say God held him guilty of a sin.
    Isiaih was told to go naked for three years (? number of years may be off?) by God as an example of what would happen to them.
    Read first Timothy 1:2-11 and 4:1-5 (especially) then, still in 1 Timothy 2:9-11.
    Marriage is an earthly example of our relationship to our Creator. Once 1 tim 4:1-5 is read ask whether or not one would want to shame our creator by being ashamed of our body in which is the image of God? It seems to me it is what is in the heart that makes it impure, or the opposite, Sanctified.
    We have became ashamed of things we should celebrate and celebrate things of which we should be ashamed. For further understanding of this statement refer to Isiaih 3:13-26 and tim 2:9-11 referenced above.
    As far as being in front of other’s I think 1 Timothy 4:1-5 says much.
    One thing just enterd my mind on this: It exposes us and alll our physical imperfections to the view of other’s as our inner selves are always Exposed to the Almighty. Bare truth??

  5. You have made a lot of inaccurate assumptions. Your very first comment shows that you haven’t spent much time reading here to understand who we are before coming to your own conclusion about how we view nudity.
    You said, “It seems you are saying being naked is a sin?” I have no idea how you determined that, but nothing could be further from the truth. Being naked is wonderful and totally appropriate in certain settings.
    We are simply saying that a person has been deeply deceived if they believe that it is appropriate to have sex with their spouse while others observe.
    You also said, “Once 1 tim 4:1-5 is read ask whether or not one would want to shame our creator by being ashamed of our body in which is the image of God?”
    Fidelity isn’t about being ashamed of our bodies or having been created in the image of God. Quite the opposite, fidelity releases us to live a full life in the freedom of the righteousness of the Kingdom of God. He has an order He established and when we live according to it, there is great blessing.
    None of the scriptures you noted even remotely support the idea that it is appropriate to have sex with your spouse while others are in the room with you.
    Your arguments are full of assumptions and deception.

  6. How it seemed you view nakedness as a sin was your comment, “My husband loves me and cherishes me. He does not want any other man to see my nakedness.”
    Rereading my comment I see it could have been taken as an attack, I was extremely tired and in a hurry, therefore it does not seem to be a statement of Love. I do apologize for the wrong assumption, and ask you forgive my percieved harshness. I think you may have misundertood me.
    Since it is done to heighten their pleasure, it is selfish and not glorifying G*d and is being done in the wrong frame of mind or heart.
    As for the reference to Isiaih; It was to say we are to clebtate the good things the Cr**tor gave us, enjpying our spouse, a good meal and company. As The Preacher says,” It is our lot in life.” Yet we seek more for appearance and acceptance to the norm which is idolatry. The above couple, in my humble opinion “may” have turned sex into idolatry. There are all kinds of examples of idolatry in this world. Turning to the government for help in crisis is a biggie lately.
    My statement was based on the history of the Jewish people. Many of the lower class lived in one room dwellings with the animals in the front part, (one reason it mentions the rooftop in some books, it was the easiest place to breath) and the people lived in the back portion. The husband and wife still made love in the one room in which others were present, admittedly, it was probably after others had gone to sleep therefore it wasn’t for attention, they were still in the same room though.
    Without writing a book: I was trying to say 1 Tim 4:1-5 is saying, If it is in pureness of heart, If no malice is intended, as in my previous comment, as in some one accidentally walking in, or done as love for one another and there is no other option, without trying to be a show.
    I fell I have been judged harshly yet you have my forgiveness. II am a truth seeker and love G*d with all my heart and seek to know all His teachings and ways. It consumes almost all my free time. As a result I am shocked to be called a deciever. Never, never would I intentionally decieve anyone.
    I hope this provides a better understanding of what I meant.
    G*d bless.

    Also, I am a type of pilosopher and rarely say anything straight forward prefering to get people to think and study.
    Prefering as The Savior did to get people to look for the truth and broaden their understanding of the scriptures.
    Yes, you were right, from a quick read last night I assumed (judged) it was because they were naked you said it was wrong.
    I stand corrected on that part..

  7. Thank you for bringing greater clarity. Still, I don’t understand why you are arguing this in an article regarding a husband who has sex with his wife, while others are in the room having sex as well. Families who live in 1 room homes (even in our modern world today), of course, have sex while their children are in the room, but as you pointed out, their children are likely sleeping. That is quite different than the issue in the situation at hand. This man argues that he is not sinning by opening the door for not only HIM to lust, but his wife and the other couples as well.
    My reason for saying that your arguments are deceiving is because you appear to use them to support this sinful situation in the article. If that was not your intent, I apologize for making an inaccurate assumption.
    While I do not believe that nakedness is a sin in and of itself, I do believe that there are many situations where nakedness LEADS people into sin.
    The command of God for Isaiah to roam naked for 3 years was a prophetic act to display the disgrace that was upon the nation at the time. The point was to illustrate that the people were covered in shame. Were nakedness something that God wished us all to participate in openly with anyone, the point God was making would be mute. Because nakedness is a private thing (to what degree I am open to some leniency), the point that God was making to the nation is powerfully displayed.

  8. May I just say – coming a little late to this fascinating debate – that there is another possibility… that the couple making love could have their pleasure in each other heightened by the knowledge of the desire they are inspiring in others. And that has nothing to do with visualising another figure in your congress.

    It may still be a sin, though.

  9. I believe the marriage bed to be sacred. Having unfortunately been in slightly similar situations before we recommitted ourselves, it can really open up a can of worms. I and my husband would have issue with the each other potentially being around said other persons/couple with out each other being there. This to me fundamentally suggested that it had potentially created some mistrust. Personally speaking, I had no lust, but could feel it from the male in the couple. If there ever had been any questions regarding our fidelity, niether of us would have had a foot to stand on. Now of course it is quite clear, that our sexual relationship is for us only to share with each other. I think this kind of “sharing or inspiring” can pave quite a sinful road.

  10. “…that the couple making love could have their pleasure in each other heightened by the knowledge of the desire they are inspiring in others.”

    In other words the couple having sex is more aroused because they know they are causing others to lust. Yep, still a sin.

  11. It sounds to me like this email may have been misunderstood in the first place. I believe what the sender is trying to say is that they have sex in the same room as other couples, not looking at or thinking about any of the other couples, and without being looked at or thought about. Sort of like, if you happened to be on a camping trip with another married couple and shared a tent. If you just happened to have the desire for sex at the same time as the other couple, and made love with your spouse at the same time, in the same tent, completely involved in just your own lovemaking, but aware that the other couple were also making love ( but not really caring about that). The heightened pleasure and love for each other could be a result of the ‘thrill’ of having sex in the open, not because you are lusting after other couples or vice versa. This would not be a problem if all concerned were under the covers and being discreet. However, I do think it is wrong for the marriage bed to be any less than private, and if others are aware of your lovemaking (except by accident) at the time of its occurrence, or if you are aware of theirs and continue to remain in the same room then it is a sin. Of course, if the other couples were fast asleep or unaware of the couple sending the email, then there would be no problem.

  12. Whew…some fierce posting here.

    My darling and I have shared 23 years together so have many love making times and private experiences to recall and rejoice over….even with me being asexual, physically, for the majority of them..

    I was always faithful to please him but could not feel anything sexually except pleasant sensations. I had my first orgasm this past summer. Now we are truly ONE in every sense of the word.

    Having said all of that, the very thought that we would have to study porn, watch lewd media for grabs, read erotica for impetus or God forbid, have anyone else in on what we have shared together is totally off limits for both of us.

    However, I have been on a steady diet of sexually educating books since my awakening so as to rewire my brain towards my darling. Extremely important for me and almost medicinal for my damaged sexual self. Studying porn is not educational !!

    I am the most private person regarding my sexuality although I can post here in an anonymous setting. My husband is equally exclusive regarding our private love and we treasure that about each other.

    If I were to imagine some other person either watching or doing their own thing in the same room as us, I would totally freak out.

    There is no way I could be free to love on my man the way I do knowing that I am being lusted over or simply being viewed. I give ALL of my love and myself to my husband. There is no-one else who could or should share in my gift of love to him and vice versa.

    He is mine and I am his and that is the way we have conducted our preciously beautiful marriage for so many years.

    After listening to so many awful marriage sorrows through the years, what we have as a couple is second to none…..or so we think….isn’t that the way it should be…us in love with each other and no-one else sharing that.

    My 2 pennies worth yet again.

  13. From our experience as a married couple… in our sinful past we were swingers. But there were times we did non-swap same room sex in front of other couples. Long story short, it was all sinful and wrong. Even the non-swap same room sex stuff provoke lustful thoughts outside of our marriage bounds.

  14. Truth, friends.
    The only sin is not being true to yourself. God wants us happy, God wants us to love, God wants us to exist and to experience. When a married couple can trust and love enough to create pure honesty in their relationship, amazing things happen. Sometimes those amazing things stay within the confines of a couple’s bedroom. Sometimes they extend beyond. When done in pure and absolute truth, everything is beautiful. Just as God wants it.
    Accept others who experiment, who feel a bond of closeness and trust that swinging can create. Do not judge those who are living their truths, just as you are not judged by them for living the way you choose.
    Just, truth and love.

  15. Truth is not subject to our whims and individual passions. It is determined by God and with the way that swinging is so destructive to the foundation of marriage (if you haven’t yet, read part one and two of this interview), there is no way that anyone could convince me that people who are having extra marital sex are living according to truth. They are living according to their passions.

    And God does not want us happy. That is no where in the Bible. If you are referring to the words in the Bible about joy, that is nothing like happiness. Happiness is about making sure that everything around us pleases us. Joy is about a deep confidence in the love and goodness of God no matter what our circumstances are.

    To be truthful God is a God of freedom and any instructions that He gives us on how to live are only in place to make us more free. He created marriage to be between one man and one woman for life and anything apart from that robs us of freedom.

    Finally, God gave us as judges for one another. Our brothers and sisters in Christ have total freedom to speak into our lives when we sin. The only caveat is that whatever we judge people on not be a sin issue for us. (Remove the log from your own eye. Then you can see clearly to remove the speak from your brother’s. Matt 7)

  16. Well said, cinnamon sticks. That is why I love this site so much, because you women go back to the Word for everything, speaking the truth in love.

  17. My thoughts too. I really enjoy this site because you girls never waver. Truth is truth no matter how we feel. Thanks for doing such a good job of writing!

  18. Reading through, as a newbie, I have a question: If causing others to lust is a sin, are we not all responsible for that in one way or another? I know I was talking to a Christian Sister of mine and she was having troubles with some things with her husband. Some of the things she and I talked about made her lustful for her husband. Is that wrong too? Also, we cannot always know when another looks at us with lust, even when we dress conservatively. I do agree with most of the posts, that being naked is a private thing. It is part of keeping ourselves for our spouses, and part of keeping ourselves pure.

  19. Welcome, Endomom! You said that some of the things you and your friend talked about made her lustful for her own husband? I can not think of many instances where a wife or husband’s feelings for their spouse would be considered lust. I would consider a spouse to be operating out of lust and not love if they were being forceful, or if they always focused on self during sex instead of their husband/wife, but that’s about it, in my opinion. I don’t know what you and your friend talked about, so I’m not sure exactly what you meant. I think there are things that many Christians would consider wrong or lustful that, when practiced within the confines of a loving marriage, are really just fine. Like I said, I’m not sure what you meant when you said she was lusting, but for a woman to have very strong sexual desires, or want to try “kinky” stuff with her husband is absolutely not wrong.
    As far as all of us being guilty to cause others to lust in one way or another, I totally agree. I’m sure that in the course of my life, even though I’m careful to dress modestly, there are still guys that will look at me and lust. The question is, have I done all I can to stop it? (Within reason, because everyone has their own ideas of modesty. I use the Holy Spirit and my husband to help me decide if I should walk out of the house in something or not!) If I feel that I have given careful consideration to be modest, then as far as I’m concerned, I’ve obeyed my Lord, and my job is done. If a man wants to “look through” my clothes, how can I stop that? I’ve done my part, the rest isn’t my responsibility. (Not that I don’t care, because I really do. My husband has had lust issues, so I’m pretty passionate about it. Just that at some point you have to wash your hands of it, you know? I just dyed my hair blond, and had a guy tell me it was too sexy, and might cause guys to lust…..um……it’s HAIR!!!) :) :)
    Anyway, just wanted to put in my two cents. I think you’ll find, if you poke around on this site enough, that there are many different opinions, which is ok. Makes for interesting conversations. :)
    P.S. You might be interested in the topic “Modesty Issues” in white, at the top right of this page. It will take you to a list of archive articles related to-you guessed it-modesty. ;)

  20. Hi,
    Please do read the articles on modesty as suggested by mdcccc.

    Staying on subject, having men lusting after me is out of my control. Paying heed to a man, other than my husband, in a sexual manner, is within my control.

    Lusting after my husband is something I relish with all my heart. I allow myself to get off on him in my fantasy life and when I self pleasure. He is mine. I am blessed by God to let my mind go all over my husband’s body in my fantasies because we are ONE.

    My man likes me to dress sexy for him but I do limit my super sexy dressing to our bedroom for date nights as I am shy with my body in public plus I personally do not want the lewd looks I would generate. In our bedroom, the wrappers get ripped off and I am HISWILDCHERRY ;-)

  21. We live in a place and time when privacy is normal, and consequently sex is most always in private. Does that make it a matter of biblical morality? Not for people in Japan or Jamaica. Or in Judea 33AD. They lived with many people in tiny houses with no glass windows. Interior walls were a rarity. There were no electric lights, lamp oil was a luxury, and everybody went inside together to sleep when it got dark. And…it was dark. People had 8 hours of dark all piled up together in the same room, on the same rugs. People made love then same as they do now, and lovemaking made the same sounds and smells then as forever. Sorry, but sex is not always and only private. The sex and sexuality of others is part of the sea we all swim in, and there is nothing necessarily wrong about being turned on by the natural world we live in; it is not the equivalent of lust, though it is clearly related.

    I spent years in India where they are very physically and visually modest. It was scandalous for a woman to be seen on the street after twilight…and yet when morning came there were naked women bathing outside their huts as far as the eye could see. But in our world, you have to go out of your way to see naked people, let alone people having sex. If you’re in a room with people having sex, you’ve probably violated all kinds of social rules, and for no good. The person asking the original question is obviously playing with fire, for fun.

    I speak as one who has had the luxury of sex in private my many years, but who has also been in the same dark tent or hotel room with others. I’ve also seen most of our close friends naked or having sex once or twice (I’m very old now.) Way back before air conditioning we’d sleep out on the rooftops of our buildings in summer, sometimes for weeks, and there was lovemaking all around, and it was very sexual, but not sordid (I was a boy.) That’s just how life is, and it’s part of being human together. Privacy is a luxury of the affluent, and it’s one we’ve come to associate with godliness. The connection is thinner than you might think.

    We may even be poorer for our affluence. When I was a kid, our main exposure to sex was hearing our parents doing it, huffing and cooing and giggling. And they knew we knew and all of that. Nowadays, kids see porn stars doing it whenever they click “Yes, I’m 18″, but they can’t even imagine their fat old parents doing it, or why they would even want to. So, they identify more with porn stars than with parents on the subject of sex. A sad boomerang effect of pornographers and prudes, a strange alliance like the CIA and Al Quaeda, keeping each other in business.

  22. I’m a little concerned with how the word “lust” is being treated here. It seems you are all assuming that “vision + arousal = lust”. I disagree, and here’s why.

    Liking something is not the same as lusting. Lusting (as we use the term) is about harboring an intent do do wrong. Consider this: Jesus said “If a man looks at a woman to lust for her, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” We would be wise to see here that if a man does NOT will to commit adultery in the intents of his heart, then even if he sees and enjoys the woman in her natural sexuality, he is clearly NOT doing what Jesus is warning against in this key passage, Mt 5:28.

    If a man says in the bottom of his heart “I would if i could”, then he is guilty as sin, whether he succeeds in “getting some” or not. If he says in his heart, “I could, but I will not”, he is not guilty; he may have been tempted, or even aroused. But if the desire in the bottom of his heart is to NOT do the sin, he is not guilty of the thing whose allure he resists. It has virtually nothing to do with what he sees with his eyes, as Jesus makes clear with the ironic challenge that men “should pluck out their right eye.” (As though gouging out an eye would cure a sinful heart — it’s intentionally ridiculous.)

    If we interpreted the matters of theft and murder in the same manner we are applying the word lust in this thread, then we will see the fallacy I am arguing against. If {vision + arousal = lust = adultery}, then we must say that {vision + arousal = lust = theft} as well. If that’s true then we should rightly assume that if I admire your new car, and imagine what a big-shot I’d be if I were its owner, and even imagined the sensation of driving it myself…that I am guilty of Grand Theft Auto. In truth I may be doing something unhealthy to my spiritual life, but in my heart I am NOT stealing your car, nor am I stealing money to buy your car, nor compromising my ethics, nor my time spent with my family, etc.) In short, there is no evil intent, and Jesus’ teaching here is about regarding evil in our hearts, not about imagining how nice it would be if any particular good thing were ours to enjoy.

    Remember, God “distinguishes between the thoughts and intents of the heart” (Heb 4:12). We do not make ourselves more godly by refusing to recognize this distinction. Now, we may be poor at distinguishing between “thoughts” and “intents”, and the slope may be slippery. But that does not mean we should just tear pages out of the bible and go back to living by the Law.

    Freedom in Christ is not about anal sex and using vibrators without guilt. The liberty we have in Christ comes from walking by the “law of the spirit of life”, and not by the “law of sin and death.” If we miss the main point we are going the way of the grave anyway.

  23. I think I understand what you are saying, but in my opinion you have missed a factor in your analogy of stealing the car. Just as a man looking at a woman lustfully doesn’t mean that he has physically had adultery with her, a man looking at a car and imagining taking it and using it to please his fleshly desires doesn’t mean that he has physically taken it. However, in both cases he has sinned. In the one case he has, in his heart, committed adultery with her and in the other case he has in his heart coveted that which does not belong to him. You said:

    In short, there is no evil intent, and Jesus’ teaching here is about regarding evil in our hearts, not about imagining how nice it would be if any particular good thing were ours to enjoy.

    But I don’t agree. His desire for us to avoid coveting is just as important as his desire for us to avoid adultery. What we desire in our hearts is very important. If we are aroused by someone who is not our spouse it is my understanding that we have sinned. All the better to resist and turn from it at the outset before it breads and grows, but it is still sin.

  24. Admiring is not coveting. One might well do both, but in fact you often admire things you do not want at all. If you do not want it, you did not covet it.

    I knew a guy who had a tiger. No kidding. It was so cool! Is it a cool thought, to be such a big deal you have your own tiger? Heck yes!Do I want a tiger? Heck no. And my life’s decisions bear out that I pursue the cross, not the world with all its lusts and tigers.

    Do I want my nieghbor’s wife? Heck no. If I did, I could have her, because he is a complete louse and she likes me way better and I have lots of money. I love her, and I do NOT want her, I do NOTt covet her, and although she is beautiful and sexy, I have NO evil intent whatsoever. My intent and energy and will is to NOT have my neighbor’s wife. And God knows it, just as He knows all things. I need not doubt that just because Tim Lahaye’s rule book says it is impossible not to covet what I admire. This reasoning applies to anyone, I am not a special case.

    I hope that clarifies what I meant.

    Love!

  25. I agree that you can admire things and not covet them and you can look at beauty and admire it without lusting. It is just also very easy for one to turn that admiration into desire and at that point it become sin, in my understanding of Jesus’ words. I can’t say when that shift happens in someone’s heart, but we do need to guard against it so I say what I say in regards to lust to help others figure out in their hearts how to guard against desiring what is not theirs. It will bread discontent and as desire grows it will make it more likely that they will physically feed on the focus of their desire.

    The topic at hand and indeed many of the proponents who have commented on this blog about having sex in the presence of others is a situation where we do need to guard against lusting. If the purpose of having sex with others around is to turn them on or use the situation to feed your sexual desire, it is sin. I know that in other cultures families share rooms and the husband and wife have sex regardless. Their intent is not to arouse their children and that is the difference.

  26. Agreed, and well said, Cinna-savant.

    You folks who think it’s cool to all do it in the same room for fun, ask yourselves this: Are you pondering how best to please God, or are you estimating what you can get by with?

    If you are measuring what you can get by with, you are living the way of the grave. “But if by the Spirit you put to death the works of the flesh, you will live.” [Galatians 5:something-or-other] Beyond that I have no worries about this or any other issue.

    I sympathize with you liberal folks, because I am one. But that does not alter who God is. God must guide your will, not your own liberality, nor your own uptightness. Walk by the spirit and you be utterly free.

  27. AMEN. I think that some people want to play the “devil’s advocate”…I’m wondering if the people who actually participate in that kind of activity truly want to serve the Lord in all that they do and say. Wasn’t it King David that said he should even avoid the appearance of doing evil??? I’m sorry, but I have to call it like it is…Having sex with one’s spouse in the company of others is WRONG. Anyone who can’t see that is blind. As christians we are called to stand up for what it right and truthful. And please don’t tell me that what is right for me may not be right for you. Read your BIBLE and you will know the truth and it will set you free. Sorry, but that got my dander up!

  28. what about the many wives and concubines the men in the bible had that were perfectly acceptable?

  29. Just because life played out a certain way for the people in the Bible, doesn’t mean that God’s best plan was carried out in each situation. For many of the stories involving many wives and concubines, the men ended up finding that they became a distraction.

  30. “Having sex with one’s spouse in the company of others is WRONG. ”

    small point actually … though i agree it is wrong to do this in our society … i do not think it is inherently evil

    what makes it wrong is doing it in front of others for fun.

    through most of history people have had to have sex in the same room as other people and it still happens today in many developing countries where many people still share a single room.

    which is different than this situation i agree … because these people are basically putting on a show for each other …

    however, as a returned peace corps volunteer i am obligated to educate people about conditions in other countries. trust me, people all over the world have sex in the same room as others because they do not have their own room.

    they are however discrete and do things when others are sleeping or outside etc. but it certainly happens. back when families had thirteen children and one room cabins what do you think they did?

  31. I would agree with your last point Lisa. There really wasn’t much people could do but have sex when others were present. Though I also believe you are right in saying that it was done discretely, not for a show, or as a group. And I would assume one room cabins would follow the same rules. We also live in a different society and culture today and must learn from that. WE are no longer forced to have sex discretely, however it really isn’t something you and the neighbours should be doing in the same room.

    Again, I’m not disagreeing with you, simply agreeing and adding some more thoughts to it :)

  32. So it all boils down to the intent of the heart. Kind of like the difference between admiration and lust?

  33. Carpentersdream,
    Yes thank you for saying so. After so much debate on this subject I think you’ve finally nailed it!

  34. Things u share with your married friends:
    dinner parties
    vacations (occasionally only)
    shopping
    recipes

    sharing your most intimate moments with the most important person in your life? that stays private.
    I hope ‘group’ marriage isn’t next on the list

  35. I would tend to think another danger in this activity is creating a stumbling block for others by causing THE OTHER people to lust, even if the couple writing above don’t feel it causes THEM to lust.

    Just my two cents, of course.

  36. I think this is a major point – causing others to lust. Who wants to be the cause of another to sin, who really wants that pressure and accountability to be placed on them? I know we do not. We do not have control over other people’s lust but we certainly do not have to provide a venue that possibly feeds it.

  37. So, following the line of thinking that it is okay to have sex in the same room as other couples, how would this man feel if his wife decided that she wanted to become a stripper? Or a pornographer? When you open that door, where do you draw the line? Bottom line ( thinking modern and not third world country, where living quarters are more private) engaging in something that is supposed to be between ONE married man and ONE married woman in front of people is wrong…

  38. This is an interesting topic for me. My husband and I live in an apartment. The walls are definitely not sound proof and often, at night, I can hear our neighbors having sex. Though I do not lust after my neighbors, I cannot help but become incredibly aroused. It usually leads to my husband and I having sex as well. Once again, I do not lust after my neighbors, but when we then have sex, I can’t help being excited by the fact that I’m pretty sure they can hear us as well. I have had mixed feelings about this and would be interested to hear what others think about the situation.

  39. I am very glad I came across this post. I unfortunately have had same room sex with my husband as well. It wasn’t with a direct couple but at a club where *all* is allowed. Yes a swing club, but we do not swing. I agreed to do this for my husband because he is aroused by knowing that others are watching what we are doing and how much pleasure he gives me. Truthfully, I would rather not keep doing this but am not sure what to tell my husband my reasons are. I did this as a trade off for other fantasies of his. He seems to think I’m turning into a prude if i want to keep our sex life to ourselves in our home even though I never deny him, initiate, dress up, put on stripteases and am open to any and all positions and types of sex as long as it is only with him. I believe in my heart that he does not think what he wants is wrong. He believes consenting adults can do what they want. I also was too free with my body when he met but after seeing the errors I was making I changed. He however, does not like my ‘chages’ because I’m not the ‘fun’ girl I was when we met. What to do?

  40. I agree that having same room sex is wrong; sex is supposed to be sacred, and you shouldn’t treat it like a carnival show.

    I wanted to reply though because this reminded me of a study I read recently. The study stated that when couples displayed PDA, it boosted their feelings of love and togetherness (which I can agree to; hubby and I always enjoy a little smooch in public). So I can see how this could extend to the couple who are having sex with other people watching.

    I’m not saying it’s right. I just wanted to maybe offer an opinion of why the couple who wrote in enjoy doing it.

  41. I told my husband about this website and he asked if they listed “swapping”, it hurt my feelings b/c we have been going over, or I have in my mind, his porn habit, which I discovered had swapping magazines in his stash. He also had some muscle man magazines in the last bunch and some violent-killing porn magazines in his stash. He says he never buys them but finds them in houses that he has to go into for work.
    He also lies about knowing that he had these things. We have a problem now b/c he came home with evil spirits on him and they are on me, so all this open sex stuff, where does it end. Now I don’t know if I can live with him the rest of my life and now I have to fend for myself and leave everything behind. He has been told but now says he doesn’t have the demonic. He goes to church but doesn’t do anything else, he said he said a prayer of salvation but he seems worse then better. I just feel he has went out and done something wring after all these years looking at porn.
    Does anyone know of a ministry that can deal with this thing. My son is a homosexual and I think he brought the demonic in and then all of us were sinning, and the devil took the opportunity to get on us. The longer I stay here the more I am being tormented but when I leave it’s like I go out from under my husband’s authority and they inflict more pain on my body. If this is too much for people, we should know that we are dealing with sexual issues and the devil takes every opportunity to destroy us so if anyone feels like judging please don’t.

  42. “If you are married and both partners agree to any sex act within the confines of your marriage bed, it is indeed pure.” This is quoted from a pastor that was asked a question regarding anal sex. Why shouldn’t this answer be the same for ANY sex act as long as the couple agree and is within the confines of your marriage?
    My husband and I do not have sex in public, in front of others, nor do we swing, for that matter we barely kiss (peck) outside of our home.
    Still yet, if the married couple discussed this and come to agreement on what their wishes are, how is this not pure?
    People really need to lighten up in regards to spouses looking at other people. It’s normal, it’s natural, most truthful people don’t try to hide it. The way I see it, if your spouse is being honest with you and letting you know what they are looking at and thinking, then coming to you for sex, then they are not cheating nor lusting for someone else. At least they are being open and honest with you. Are you truthfully, one hundred percent open and honest with your spouse or are you actually hiding the fact that you too are actually looking and have the same thoughts? For the life of me, I cannot fathom the idea that there is not one person on this earth who does not look at the opposite sex and think, “wow, they are good looking or they look amazing”, etc. I had a Catholic Priest tell the congregation one Sunday morning, that he is like everyone else – he sins. He looks at the opposite sex, he smokes, he drinks, etc. That was the first and the last time I’ve ever heard someone actually speak honestly and not try to hide the real truth.

  43. First and foremost the devil must flee when we claim Jesus as our savior!!! I have had feelings in the past of oppression but once I claim scripture and call out to God satan must flee he has no power anymore! A christian can not have the devil inside of him but I do believe we can get sidetracked and not follow God’s plan which can lead to behaviors that lead us and others astray! I believe if you claim scriptures quote them in your house tell satan to flee he must! Make it a daily or hourly thing if you must to feel God’s presence! My advice for you and your husband would be to seek Godly counsel if he is willing if not go by yourself! God is the ultimate healer so I do believe he can purify your husbands mind and heal your marriage but maybe you need outside help for now. I’m sorry you are going thru this I will pray for you and your family! By the way one of my mom’s good friends daughter was gay but healed by God’s mighty power so nothing is impossible with him!!! Hope this helps!

  44. Amen sister. Amen.

  45. While it may be normal to notice another person’s attractiveness, it is not acceptable to continue to look, as my dh would say. If another person is stirring up desire in me, going to my spouse for sex is dishonest. That is biblical lust. Christ said in Matt.5:28 “But I say to you that anyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart”. He didn’t say it was wrong only if you didn’t go to your wife for sex once the desire was there. Lust and covetousness are the same thing. They both mean to desire. But just because a man happens to see a woman who is attractive, doesn’t mean he desires her. A truly godly man understands that Satan will try to stir up the fleshly desire in him, but he will redirect his thoughts towards godly things and not allow the sinful thoughts to develope. My husband has stated that there are times when he will be driving somewhere or whatever and will happen to notice an provocative woman (usually her dress or behavior) and he will intentionally look elsewhere. The Holy Spirit gently nudges him, letting him know that to continue in that direction would be displeasing to God. That is what got King David in trouble. He shouldn’t have allowed his mind to entertain sinful thoughts but instead gone to the Father to refocus his attention. My dh says you can’t prevent the first look, but you can control whether or not you take a second or continuous look. Satan is seeking to do everything he can to destroy godly marriages, and the gate to the mind is a difficult one. We need to keep our minds, hearts and marriages pure. God is holy and He expects us to be the same way. Prayer and time in the Word helps to remain in a close relationship with God and combat sin.

  46. Great thoughts!


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