Same Sex Attraction: Introduction

Well, the time has come that I sit down and begin a discussion on the very difficult topic of Same Sex Attraction (SSA). It’s difficult for a lot of reasons. First of all, it’s not talked about a lot in the Church so it’s hard to know where to begin. It’s also something that makes a lot of Christians uncomfortable so it’s hard to be honest about it. Because the majority of Christians, myself included, believe that God has establish that proper expression of sexual pleasure ought to be between one man and one woman in marriage, we often approach the questions surrounding SSA with a lot of judgement. It’s also a point of heavy contention between Christians and much of our society. The idea that it would be realistic for someone in the church to be struggling with this is embarrassing to a lot of Christians and the conviction that homosexual acts are sinful is offensive to those who support gay rights. The whole discussion is wrought with struggle and strife between the two sides. But I must take the time to discuss it, and here is why. These are excerpts from several emails we have received over the last little while.

I am a Christian and I am in a really great marriage with my husband of many years. How is it that I would struggle with attraction to other women? It’s not something I want and I avoid the attraction as much as possible but when it’s triggered, I’m reminded it’s still there. The thorn in my side. Is this a topic you could discuss? Bisexuality or attraction to the same sex?

I am married to a wonderful man and have wonderful children. However, I have a very serious struggle. I’ve had it for most of my life and it makes me feel good, yet very ashamed. The struggle is, that I find myself sexually attracted to other women, and I don’t know how to stop it. It makes me feel ashamed and unsaved at times. I try to figure out how this started. There are only two possible triggers…1) being molested by a woman, at a young age, and 2) seeing my share of porn on the past. Could you please try to address this issue? I’d like to have a healthy view of sex before God, and my husband. Thank you.

I have a history of bisexualism and have had bisexual tendencies since I first saw beautiful images of naked women in magazines that I was not supposed to see at a very young age, 8 or so…. I struggle with the tempation of being with another woman.

These women are having a very real struggle between their flesh and what they know to be true about God’s plan for sexual pleasure. Just so you know where I am coming from at the outset of this discussion, this is my conviction about homosexuality. A person who is prone to be sexually attracted to someone of the same gender is encountering a temptation for sin. I do not believe that most people choose to have same gender sexual desires, although bi-sexuality is becoming something of a fad so in some cases I do believe people choose it. I believe that a lot of different factors can influence a person to have very real struggles with SSA that they are not choosing to have, but what I believe is a choice is how the person responds to the struggle. For those who choose to embrace these desires as part of their identity and pursue a gay lifestyle, which I do not agree with, it does not give me licence to forfeit on the command to love. So while I am convicted based on the whole of Scripture that homosexual acts are sinful, I am equally convicted that the higher command is to love. And while I do not accept homosexuality as a legitimate expression of godly sexuality, I do not believe that it should be looked upon as so much worse than others in the church who struggle with marital fidelity, pornography addiction, or even selfish greed and malicious speech. They all tarnish the Bride of Christ and those in the body who struggle with these things need the Church to come along side and create an environment where people are safe to take ownership of their sin so that they can deal with it. I know that people on both sides of this contention-filled issue of gay rights are going to disagree with some aspects of my point of view, but it is my conviction nonetheless.

That being said, where do we go from here in this discussion? What is the solution? I am going to include an interview next week as part of this series on SSA, but in the meantime I want to end this introduction by presenting some questions for you to ponder and interact with.

1. Do you have people in your life who struggle with this or who have embraced homosexuality for themselves?

2. What would you do if you found out that someone in your church congregation was struggling with this?

3. If you found yourself feeling an attraction to someone of the same gender, what would you do?

If you wish to participate in the discussion I ask that you keep your comments respectful. Comments will be edited or deleted completely if they are an attack towards others. Feel free to share your opinion without accusing other commenters.

57 Comments

  1. After have a lengthy conversation with a friend struggling with this exact issue today, I was interested to read your opening thoughts. While my reference point may be ‘One Man – One Woman, I have yet to know anyone who has had their sexual orientation completely/utterly/instantly re-directed by the prayer for salvation or the desperate pleading for a miracle. We hear of men who have been gay, got saved and gone straight. They become poster boys for this miracle God of ours only to find themselves caught up in old lifestyles. I say this, not to diminish our God, or the men themselves – but to state the bleeding obvious – our sexuality is what makes us so darn complicated, complex and glorious in our fallen decay. I don’t struggle with wanting to have sex with another woman, even though I think that the female form is far and beyond more beautiful, sexual and erotic than the male form. But I remain highly alert to the need to gently hold the heartand the stories, the heartbreak and the nightmares of those who struggle. Will we have a manifesto at the conclusion of the ensuing conversations? No – I hold no hope for that – nor should it be our aim. My hope is that our hearts will be broken with the things that break the heart of God – including people (like you and me) who are scrambling and scraping along, desperately trying to find our way home. God bless us all, may we always find the courage to stay in the circle of his light-for in doing so, the broken will one day find ourselves irrevocably transformed by his everlasting presence. God speed that day.

  2. I wonder how many gay people God has to create before we can see his message that it’s OK?

  3. WOW! This is a tough one! I have known my share of gay and lesbian people. I know for some it was not a choice. One woman I have known her whole life and she from a very young age, hated being a girl. Wanted to be a boy more than anything. Others it may be a choice. My bishop came out last year. He has chosen to live celebit because of how well he knows the Bible. He also wanted to stop living a lie and give his wife a chance at a more fulfilling life. I too, am torn with this issue. I have had attractions and have wanted to act on some with my husband. We have not done so but it has been discussed – a thrill of a life time for a man. While I want to do this for him, I am afraid of how much it will change us. I am very interested to see where this discussion will go. I hope not very judgemental. I told my mom this – God created “freaks of nature” in almost every form of animals whose to think He wouldn’t do it in humans as well? He loves breaking His own rules (of nature) with flying mammals, mammals that lay eggs, fish that fly, birds that swim and so on). I love these people with His love and in the end, He is the ultimate judge. I have a hard time believing the people that I love are not covered by the blood of Jesus, just like I am.

  4. I think there are different subthreads going on here in the discussion already.

    One by kittycat: “I have a hard time believing that people that I love are not covered by the blood of Jesus, just like I am.”
    If these loved one accept Jesus as Savior, then they will be covered by the blood. Period.

    Two by Susan Anthony: “God creating gay people…” Really?

    There is so much involved with this issue as already stated. I believe the bottom line is that God does NOT create people to be gay because He clearly states in His word that homosexual acts are SIN. He would not create something that is so totally against His word. He gives us a choice. For some reason homosexuality has more “weight” as a sin than lying, cheating, gossiping, etc. It is not more sinful.
    People can say that I can’t help lying, God made me that way. Nope… you choose to live in such a way that is sinful. It may not be easy, but you can control your choices. Will I lie in this case or will I be truthful?
    Will I act out my desire for the same sex or will I on my knees cry out to God to help me overcome the temptation.
    If you struggle with SSA, will it be easy to overcome temptation? Nope. Just like for some they can’t overcome the temptation to overeat, indulge in drugs, etc, etc. The only way for victory over a sin issue is with God. We all have our issues and we all need God’s mercy and grace for victory.

    Thank-you for tackling such a difficult topic! I pray that it’ll be helpful to many.

  5. Your introduction was great. While I personally have never struggled with homosexuality – I have a very close friend who has, and, by the grace and mercy of God, been delivered. We don’t discuss it at length, but he’s married now to a wonderful woman. God is King over all and there is healing and deliverance We are all born sinful, with tendencies to one sin more than others. For some it’s alcohol, for some it’s anger, for some it’s homosexuality. If I or a member of our Church was struggling in this area – I would, like you suggested above, expect and point to the elders in our Church to come alongside and help deal with it, no less than if someone was committing adultery, addicted to porn or any other sin needing to be addressed.

  6. Amen, cinnamon sticks! Thanks for your first post in addressing this area. *thumbs-up*

    This is definitely a difficult issue, and my heart goes out to all of you who may be struggling with this in some shape or form. It’s sad that the church at large doesn’t address these kinds of struggles or reach out in love to those who are at odds with them. Growing up in a fundamental environment, one just didn’t talk about these things, and if you heard somewhere that someone you knew was beginning to experiment with SSA, that was the first and only time you’d bring it up and that person was more or less shunned.

    I have 2 people in my life that have chosen the gay lifestyle. It breaks my heart to know what they went through and any factors that occurred in their lives that led them to believe they were gay. Last fall I prayed (as I was struggling against loving them the way God does and passing judgment like I had done for a chunk of my life) “Father, help me to love them the way You do”. While I still struggle now and then with the judgmental attitude, I know God has been answering that prayer ^_^.

    Jesus was known on this earth as the friend of sinners. Who are we, who have His spirit in us, to say we can’t do the same?

  7. Fascinating comments and a great start to the series, CS! :)

    One thing to consider as you use the phrase “lifestyle choice” is that many LBGT people do not believe it’s a choice b/c they do not actively remember making the decision. The very phrase “it’s a choice” is very hurtful to them b/c they feel as though those who don’t deal with SSA are maligning their feelings and attraction, which feels very, very real to them.

    While Scripturally we can argue the issue of “choice” in attraction, it’s probably helpful to know that experts seem to agree that gender identity is formed in the earliest years of life. If the gender identity is to be “broken” (i.e., resulting in SSA, transgendered feelings, or even bisexuality), it will most often happen before the age of 3. Virtually NO ONE can remember these early years, and so these feelings seem (to the individual) as if “they’ve always been there.” Ergo, they cannot remember making a choice.

    Sometimes choices are made for people by the actions of others who have evil in their hearts and then their victims live with the far-reaching repercussions; gender identity can be “broken” in that way, as well.

    Compulsions like gender attraction are complicated things and cannot often be pigeonholed so we can understand them better. I firmly believe there’s a biblical line to be maintained, but not at the expense of the mandate to love as Jesus loved.

    My $.02 in the matter.

  8. For our readers, this is Cori and we will be hearing more from her next week in the interview I had with her. I believe you will find her story very relevant to this discussion and her insights will be very helpful. I can’t wait for you all to read the interview. :)

  9. I believe there are many influences on the developmenting brain – both inutero and in the developmental years of a person’s life. With the chemical washes that flood the brain, combined with other biological influences, plus the impact of illness (viruses and temperature spikes etc), mixed with external stimuli such as environment and abuse etc – is it any wonder some people are devastated when told their sexual orientation is about choice (and sin). We are inclined towards making our sexual orientation a religious or moral issue only … if only life were that cut, dried and uncomplicated!

  10. Here’s a thought I am working on – the Choice Theory (just made that up!) is one of the most devastating abuses that we can inflict on people — it can lead to deep shame, self-hatred, addictions, acting out and perhaps even suicide. I for one don’t want to stand before my God and defend myself against such accusations … I’m in enough trouble already!!

  11. It’s been a long time since I read Job, but didn’t it teach us that God doesn’t interfere with our life or choices after the episode with Job? But IIRC, satan didn’t make the same statement (Now I’m going to have to reread Job LOL).

    As far as “God made me this way”, that makes as little sense as someone saying “God caused an earthquake (or any other natural disaster)”, or “God is punishing someone because of XYZ”.

    As far as judging people for having intimate relations with their own gender, You’re not God, so you’re not supposed to judge! Only He gets to decide if choosing to have relations with their own gender is worse than pre-marital sex or affairs.

    It’s my opinion that some straight people are made nervous by gay people. Speaking only for myself, I’m made uncomfortable discussing sex in person with anyone other than my husband – the anonymity of the internet is the only way I feel comfortable discussing sex with anyone else. I don’t like watching an obviously sleazy women slithering all over a group of men, so of course I don’t like watching obvious mating rituals of non-straights in public.

    I worked with a man that was a flaming homosexual, but he toned it down as much as possible at work, never discussed relationships or sex, except one time he was down and out, and I had to ask him what was wrong – then he said he felt it was inappropriate to discuss it while at work. So I caught up with him later in a more secluded area, to tell him to let me know if he needed anything. He then told me another area of our work had a few giving him a hard time about him being an obvious gay, even though he tried to tone it down for work.

    I respected and liked the heck out of that coworker, he never threw sex in anyone’s face like many others (gay and straight) enjoy doing (then wonder why some don’t want to be around them).

    But in addition to my not liking ANYONE being overly sexual in public, I also don’t like people that use their religion as a passive-aggressive weapon against others.

    And I believe the US is a free country, free to practice religion, or choose NOT to. If the reason against gay marriage was ONLY based on religious beliefs, I’d be fine with the masses voting for/against gay marriage. However, it’s my opinion/guess that others hoping their loved ones won’t be swayed by what’s currently acceptable public behavior, as well as temporary attraction (sometimes influenced by alcohol/drugs – and DON’T tell me gays haven’t used alcohol/drugs as seduction aids, for I knew 3 people, male and female, that were taken advantage of while under the influence!) are worried that if gay marriage was allowed, that “some” gay couples would throw it in others’ faces as much as possible. AFAIK, toning down sexual/mating behavior in public would probably be beneficial to the gay marriage movement (but then again, I wish straights would tone themselves down too!)

  12. i thought, off and on, all day about how to respond to this in a most delicate way as to not offend; i will try and if i offend, please be aware that it is not my intention. i only share what i have walked through and what God has taught me.

    i was a involved in the lesbian ‘lifestyle’ for many years. it was meeting my husband that pulled me out; i was honest with him about where i was sexually, meaning that i was attracted sexually, still to women. this was not a ‘fad’ for me (altho, i do come from the genX culture) i started masturbating at the age of approx 9 or 10 and it was to female images (as an aside i don’t remember how this started only that it did). i pretended to be hetero for many years until i was comfortable to release this information and start to move in it. fortunately for me, i started to experiement and ended up conceiving almost immediately with my DH. i say ‘fortunately’ as i look back, but at the time it created a crisis in me … which invariably lead me to the Lord.

    the thing that is the most stunning to me is that after all these years, the attraction is still there! it is somewhat diminished … but still there. altho the area in which it comes from is different. let me explain. when i feel sexually stimulated by my hubby whether its in real time or just thinking about him, the ‘butterfly’ feeling of excitement or being turned on is higher in my belly and more towards the front of my body; when i feel the sexual excitement or draw of another female it is not in the same area … it is more towards my back and lower … like just in from my tailbone, towards my intestines; and its not a butterfly feeling; its more of a baser kind of pounding. i know when i’m in the presence of another lesbian as this area starts to throb. (sounds weird i know … but, there it is)

    i don’t believe that God created me ‘gay’ …. i chose it because of things and triggers that happened to me during my childhood at specific times; i know that some might take offence to this, but as i said, none meant; this is what my Lord showed me … about me. that me choosing to seek out women was a result of me trying to salve my own pains of a wounded and broken heart, instead of turning to Him; it was my attempt at self preseveration and safety .. its what He meant when He said that He, “turned me over to myself” … some of us need to bottom out before we will look to Him.

    is this my ‘thorn’ … perhaps. honestly from what God has taught me, i don’t see this draw to homosexuality any different than any other fleshly draw … the draw to drink (alcoholics); the draw to over eat (gluttony or lust … take your pick) …. the draw to take what isn’t yours (stealing); to be overly focused on what you want and need rather than others (selfishness); the draw to have sex with someone else other than who you are married to.

    i don’t mean to sound glib; but after all was said and done and i’m able to reflect back; it was me wanting my own way … wanting sexual gratification without any consequences; wanting what “”I”” wanted … and not wanting God’s way; it was easier to be with women than with a man. women understand each other … we all know the joke that men are from mars and women are from venus; well, its so much safer and easier to just be with a like minded partner; but God showed me that i would never grow into the person He wanted me to be if i didn’t have the natural tension between a husband and wife … that He allowed.

  13. I am a Christian and have been for over 20 years. The one thing I have always wondered is why is that Christians believe that it is not possible to be born gay. Now before you assume I must have had an SSA, I have not, never and would never. But I was not created that way. There are people born with both sets of genitals and some parents have made a decision one way or the other at a young age, so what happens if they chose wrong and the dominant gene did not match their physical being. Likewise, if such defects occur, how is it that it might not be possible for someone to have a genetic defect and their genes don’t match the body they are in? I totally get that some people choose this way because of upbringing, trauma or circumstances but what about those that are truly born in the wrong body. Who am I to judge their reasonings. I don’t! I know and work with people who are gay and have found them to be great people most of whom knew at a very young age that they were different. I know some will not like my post but I appreciate the opportunity to share my question in this forum as I would not have the opportunity to do so elsewhere.

  14. Large implications are usually found upon data. All data thus far is actually leading towards homosexuality as non-genetic thanks to twin studies. If it were genetic, and have weak returns by natural selection standards, it would disappear almost definitely; given the homosexual life style was approved of and allowed.

    As it stands now I think the government should forgo legislation regarding marriage altogether. It was a cultural part of early American society buy as time passed and America became less religious it should changed the name by which they call marriage. Once it becomes a non religious term, people who want union can go to a judge, and people who want to get married can go to their church and then a judge.

  15. I have a friend who is daily overcoming SSA. We’ve been friends since college. He still battles it, and God is his constant help. In many of the comments, we’re trying to consider whether a person is born with SSA or not. Will that factor determine whether it will be acceptable and pleasing to God or not? I tenderly want to plead with you to look to scripture first to determine whether acting on SSA would be pleasing to God. This is not an attempt at legalism here. Our right actions won’t save us, only the saving blood of Christ. But God gave us His word for a reason, and He asks us to obey His word for “our good”. So for your own good, please consider scripture as weightier than the newest scientific study. God knew our struggles before we struggled with them, and He still asked us to obey him in the midst of a crooked and depraved world. Part of our path toward glory will be a blood, sweat, and tears battle with the sinful nature, but Praise God we have access to the power of the Holy Spirit and are ALREADY considered justified because of Christ’s sweet blood over us. Please obey, for “your good”. Not for “rightness” or for your ability to meet some standard. Grace to you.

  16. to Laura: your quote; “truly born in the wrong body.”

    this statement implies that God puts the wrong person in the wrong body … which implies that He is fallible … that is contra to scripture.

  17. i thought of this after i posted … if God can create, and have people “born that way” … to be gay; then who’s to say that He cannot have people born to beastiality; or pedophiles. i don’t mean to be crude … but, next thats what it will be.

    it just doesn’t sound like the God that i’ve been walking with and getting to know for the last 22 years. it also doesn’t sound the creator to me.

  18. Hi LHW: It’s such a deep and complex issue, isn’t it. I got to thinking, “If the thought that a person might be ‘born that way’ implies a fallible God, what do we presume when we see an imperfectly beautiful child with a tragic handicap? Do we also imply a fallible God? Afterall, he’s ‘born that way’. ” The other side of eternity will provide some clarity we cannot even begin to understand in this lifetime. I just pray that people like you, me and the others who contribute to this site continue to throw our arms around the world, and love like there’s no tomorrow. This one thing I know, when we love the lord our god with every fibre of our being – and love the people too – then we align ourselves and our world in such a way that God himself can bring a little more of heaven to earth. Peace to you LHW.

  19. I wonder if people are born with a predisposition to certain things, and then their environment and life experiences point them in certain directions. My father was an alcoholic and my sister is a lesbian, so I have given this a lot of thought. I don’t think that God causes people to be alcoholics, but a lot of scientific evidence suggests that some people (even some groups of people) are more prone to become alcoholics. In my father’s case, I think that he was predisposed, and then some very difficult childhood experiences may have pushed him to use alcohol as a means to cope, and it just spiraled downhill from there. So I have often wondered if the same thing might be true with homosexuality. If it is, the experiences must occur at a very young age, because most gay men and lesbians do believe that they were born that way. It’s a very difficult issue. I do believe that God intends sex to be limited to a man and woman in marriage, but how difficult it must be for people whose primary or only attraction is to people of the same sex. I know that our response should be to treat people the way Christ treated people, with love, respect, and compassion, but also honesty.

  20. Not to offend but every time I hear “”The Bible is very clear that same sex, sexual relations is a sin”” I cringe. The bible is not very clear and this shows a very fundamental misunderstanding of how the bible as we know it today has come to be. Basically we’re talking about 5 interpreted passages found in the Old Testament. If we wanted we could play the same game for countless other things- masturbation, inter-racial marriage, women working, sex on menses– you get the idea. When someone can point to me where Jesus Christ is quoted as saying this is a sin then I will be convinced. Until then I refuse to believe that the loving God I know is less tolerant than I.

  21. It seems that only people who have never struggled with SSA are the ones who are adamant about throwing the Bible verses around. I have a friend (a co-worship leader) who came out of the closet, after many attempts to try to find the “right man” She now has found the right woman and is very happy. And finally very relieved to be in a relationship that feels right to her. Who are we to say that people aren’t born with certain tendancies, if it has never been a problem for us? I think loving a person reguardless of their tendancies or sexual preference goes way further than trying to ‘fix’ them with a Bible verse. Love them right where they’re at. And if God feels He needs to change them, let Him be the one to do it. For all of you ladies who struggle with this: God loves you right now, right where you’re at. You’re not broken. He knows who you are and how you are, and He is not mad with you.

  22. “It seems that only people who have never struggled with SSA are the ones who are adamant about throwing the Bible verses around.” Not actually true. Several people have posted their first hand experience with it and still maintain that they believe God intended sex to be between a man and a woman.

  23. I have trouble digesting a couple of things you have put up for discussion. “I think loving a person reguardless of their tendancies or sexual preference goes way further than trying to ‘fix’ them with a Bible verse.” – I very genuinely believe that if I am offering a verse it is because I have found it to be relevant, of help, and guidance to other people who hold scripture in the same esteem that I do. Or, to show what I do follow, and why. I do understand that sharing a verse with someone that does not view the Bible in the same respects will have limited if not negative responses. But to show it to someone means that if they understand it to be a way to live life by, they might heed it, and look to understand the God that thinks the way He does. This brings me to the second thing I had trouble with: “You’re not broken. He knows who you are and how you are, and He is not mad with you.” – How do you know when God is/ is not grieved by someone else’s actions? God is both evidently angered at times, and saddened at times by our actions when they are not seeking and worshipful to Him… He has revealed that to me, but has He given you this insight that He is not mad with people who are not diligently heart hungry for Him? …or actually emotionally (or in any other way) broken and in need of being put back together for His good?

    As a thought of my own, I think I can be as general as to say that when our lives become about us, and our satisfaction, and our happiness… we find all sorts of things to meet those needs- especially when we lean towards certain actions, whether or not we have a conscience against it. But when our lives are God seeking and moving towards a better understanding of Him and our purpose, all the things we leaned towards before fall away slowly. Whatever they may be. I get it that so many people are made uncomfortable by sin, but we are prideful, arrogant, glory-hungry beings that need humility too. “Not one is good.”

  24. We were talking about our church’s new vision and mission statement today that the congregation will be voting on next month. Today LOVE was explained as the root of all things the church can do for everyone. It was the greatest commandment that Jesus said that we should love one another. Matthew 22:37-38 says “Jesus replied, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment.” , but it continues on in verses 39-40 saying, “And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    As his sermon went on, my pastor quoted this scripture from The Message. I am not usually fond of The Message as I don’t know much about it’s interpretation, but this made me put a BIG star by this…. “Romans 12:2 – Don’t become so well-adjusted to your culture that you fit into it without even thinking. Instead, fix your attention on God.” My mind shot to this article.

    I pose this question to you … are we so fixated in society on what WE want and the choices that WE want to make that we don’t focus on what GOD wants for us?

    I have posted this article previously about similar questions.

  25. First I must thank and commend lionhearted wife for sharing her story with us. Thank you for being a light in the world where so much darkness reigns.

    I think this is a very important discussion and many wonderful things have been said. I have a few thoughts and a question. First of all I have had some very close friends who are gay. They were some of the most miserable people I’ve ever known. I loved them dearly and I think it is a very difficult path. I think for the most part, most gay people do not wake up one day and “decide” to be gay. In that way I do not believe they “choose” it. Although I do believe it is irrelevant as to whether or not a person is born that way I seek to understand others and their plight in this life. My question is, “Of the gay people you have been close too, have they been molested, abused or viewed pornography at a young age?” Some definitely are, but I wonder if it is most people.

    As far as judging others I am grateful for a loving Savior who will judge us, so I don’t need to. I believe he felt all of our pains and sorrows in Gethsemane and on the cross. He knows how hard it is for my gay friend to resist temptation. He knows everyone’s heart. He knows when the heart is right but the flesh is weak. He knows everything. I am so grateful for that.

    Doctrinally sin is sin. Without Christ the smallest teeniest sin would keep us out of heaven. I think our culture has taught us that homosexuality is “worse”. Doctrinally speaking man is not without the woman, and the woman with out the man, cleave to one another and none else. We all know the scriptures. And in reply to the woman who said she’ll believe it’s wrong when Jesus says it’s wrong, everything in the Bible is His word–not just His words as a mortal man during His ministry. Homosexuality is sin just like, fornication or adultery.

    My biggest concern on this subject is all of the “experimentation” among teenagers today with their sexuality. Because of the internet and cell phones, teenagers have access to porn 24/7. When I was young I only knew what my friends did, that was my influence. Now teenagers are influenced by everything.

    Lastly, for those struggling with SSA. My heart goes out to you. The Lord loves you. He wants to save you just as much as any of the rest of us sinners.

  26. Just as an offer of help for those who mentioned that homosexuality is only addressed in the Old Testament and is thus no longer applicable to us here, today, I wanted to offer some verses from the New Testament on this that confirm what the OT already said:
    Galatians 5:16-24
    Romans 1:18-32
    1 Corinthians 6:9–11
    1 Timothy 1:8–11
    Jude 1: 7
    Matthew 19:3-7
    Please read it in context with the rest of the Bible, knowing that Jesus loved us IN SPITE of ourselves, that we have ALL sinned (not just those acting on SSA), that we were all born with a sinful nature, that the heart is deceptive above all else, that Jesus died knowing every past, present, and future offense we would commit against Him, and that regardless of our even today struggle with sin, faith in the work, death, and life of Jesus means that we can stand shameless before The Father. That is good news!
    Just wanted to add some extra tools from the New Testament to the conversation because it was mentioned. Grace to you!

  27. Thank you so much for posting this because it really emphasizes my point exactly! Take for example 1 Corinthians 6:9–11. Biblical history tells us that this is not original text but a translation. Originally the terms used in the list were malakoi and arsenokoitai the meanings of which are open to interpretation. What is historically VERY CLEAR though is that the translation of these words to imply that they mean homosexual is something that is a 19th Century incarnation that really didn’t take hold until the 1950’s– meaning that for the first two thousand years or so of the bible it did not hold that connotation at all! For centuries malakoi in particular was most commonly interpreted as a softness or moral weakness NOT homosexuality. The shame is that false prophets usurped the good book for their own purposes in creating this translation for their own gain. The bigger shame of course is that hate sells so well in our society that they were able to do it.

  28. hi CH .. peace to you as well sista. i don’t see physically handicapped as a choice … which is how i see it homosexuality … a choice in lifestyle.

    God is no respecter of men/women. as i stated earlier; Abba would not create someone with a greater predisposition to sin than anyone else; we are all born with the sin nature … equally within us; if it were not this way then what we say about God is that He, infact, is creating people to be tempted to sin (by having them ‘born that way’); and again, that is contra to scripture because God CANNOT be tempted there for He does not tempt anyone.

    ultimately my position is that sex is for reproduction; the fact that it feels fantastic and is fun, is the icing on the cake for staying ‘bonded’ in marriage … when two men can reproduce or two women can reproduce a human baby … on their own, then i will rethink what God has shown me. until then … i praise Him!!

  29. hey spicy, love your question … and yes, imo, we have become so well adjusted that we do fit it … in most cases, what i observe is that there is really not much different between believers and non-believers; case in point: the divorce rate is equal … (not to mix controversial issues here) lol

  30. Excelent Question!! In fact it is such an excelent question that one might apply it to many of the recent articles regarding Piercings, Tattoo’s, Breast augmentation, and yes the topic that always gets me in trouble, Social nudity.

  31. It discusses women having unnatural relations with other women. How is that not clear? In the meanwhile, a study on the greek/latin interpretation of these words would be valuable for us all to do.

  32. Look in Romans 1,:18-32.

  33. “Gay Rights” and the whole LGBQTA movement is the pinnacle of political correctness now–even more so than abortion, I think. It is very “cool” to be gay now. How far we’ve come/fallen, I think. I believe we’ve gone past the point of no return in our society re this topic–we are definitely in Romans 1 territory as a nation–we not only tolerate homosexuality, we wholeheartedly approve of it by making it a protected class.

  34. I would encourage all to delve into the context and translations of any of these quotes. When we understand the history of the period things and the bibles evolution as a book things become much less clear. Words get translated for the benefit of their translators and their true meaning becomes lost. Most all who have studied the verse in Romans on a scholarly level conclude it was written in response to the religious competition at the time and specifically in response to those who had aligned themselves with the budding pagan movement and rituals that had been growing in popularity at the time.

    For me the message of the Jesus and the bile is love. When you study and learn how that word has been twisted to promote hate it is heartbreaking.

  35. I disagree that to call something sin means that you are promoting hate. If a grown man was molesting children because he felt naturally prone that way for as long as he could remember, would it be hatred to point out his sin? It is possible to love someone while recognizing sin in them. Certainly we see sin in the whole of humanity and yet we continue to love.

    I believe that this particular argument from those who support homosexuality as legitimate sexual conduct is used to try to intimidate people who don’t agree with them. If they can tell someone that they hold their opinion out of a place of hatred or fear, it gives them a sense of power. It simply is not true that everyone who disagrees with homosexuality does so because of hate or fear.

  36. I’d venture to say 9 times out of 10 they just don’t take the time to understand the world through the other person’s eyes, for any number of reasons.

  37. I truly didn’t hear an intimidating tone to Susan’s comments. However I have heard that intimidation from many people on both sides of the argument.

    Susan, can you reference the scholarly studies you mention, for those of us interested in further researching. Was it your studies that helped you form your position? I would like to see you expound further on your position and let us see your scriptural basis embedded into your response. Also, how has “that word” been twisted to promote hate?

    This topic creates an excellent opportunity for us to suspend our own judegements and previously formed opinions and take a position of ‘Inquiry” rather than one of “Knowing”. I am enjoying the input from everyone.

    PS: To CS: (Just one little thing): The example of an adult (paedephile) abusing a child could be confusing when we are discussing homosexual persuasion and/or consentual sex. It implies that to fail to take a stand against homosexuality is as devastatingly sinful and abusive as deliberately turning a blind eye to a paedophile and leaving the child exposed and unprotected. I know that this is not your intent at all – but it is, unfortunately, what the example itself implies.

  38. To be honest I’m flabbergasted by you comment. If a well meaning attempt to educate is considered intimidation than perhaps you have to ask yourself why that is.

    Your analogy is even more disturbing. How in the world could you equate a loving committed relationship between two people who love one another and which harms no one to pedophilia?

  39. Amen Cinnamonsticks! Well said! I disagree with homosexuality, but I do not fear and hate those that are trapped in its grip. I pray for them just as I pray for others bound by other types sin.

  40. There’s an underlying offense to being called a sinner in the hearts of man. This steals us from recognizing the glory of God and the extreme grace we’ve been given. When we can admit that “all have sinned”, then we can begin to cherish grace. Until then, we are stuck in our own man-made self righteousness, which will get us no-where. I still intend to delve into further study, but this is mentioned so many times in so many different ways that I can’t refute it. Certainly we want to come humbly before scripture and let scripture determine our ways, not our own hearts or our own culture or anything else, but scripture appears to be clear on this. I do wish you (Susan Anthony) would prayerfully, humbly look again as well.

  41. Susan, I used the example of molestation because I knew you would clearly see that to point out sin in a person is not hatred. I know that consensual sex is not the same as molestation, but the heart of both gay sex and molestation is sin in my understanding of the WHOLE of scripture and my revelation of who God is. To love extravagantly those who are in sin AND to see the sin is completely possible. That is the character of God that I understand, but your claim that to stand up against homosexuality equals hatred is what I was referring to when I said that people of your opinion like to use that arguing point a lot and it simply is not true. I believe it does give you a sense of power to say that we are hateful because of the position we hold on this issue. Suddenly we are either hateful or we need to be persuaded to your argument.

    And do not think for a moment that I am bothered by your “attempt to educate” or I would have deleted your comments altogether. It was this specific arguing point of charging people with hate who differ from you in their opinion that I am opposed to.

  42. Pointing out sin is not hatred but distorting Gods word for gain certainly is. I don’t believe for a second that those that spread the message of sin and homosexuality do it for the benevolence of the homosexual. Rather it is clear to me that this is rather an attempt to strengthen one’s standing by creating a me vs. them dynamic within a congregation, something that is completely contrary to Jesus’ inclusive message as I understand it.

    This is not something new. Jews were once considered sinners. Inter-racial relationships were a sin, those who drank alcohol or had sex on menses or had the gall to dance were considered in sin. The list goes on and on. How does the message of hate the sin love the sinner fit in this context? Can it be considered to be love to say I sincerely love you but I hate that you married a black man? Is it loving to not realize the pain we are causing to people who are harming no one?

    Fortunately, through time the Church has shown the ability to evolve in their positions and I am sure in time they will evolve in this one as well. Until then I would encourage people to continue to challenge their beliefs and consider reading opinions that differ from their own.

  43. Just to put my previous comments in context with this website. Just about everything discussed here was at one time and in many cases still is considered to be sinful by a great many Christians. I’m sure in biblical times if one were to caught making love in a public dressing room the punishment probably would be stoning :). Here it’s just something someone might consider doing with their committed partner.

    So why does this sight exist? It exists because “enlightened” individuals challenged this outdated way of thinking. We have understanding. We don’t say so and so enjoys anal sex in the context of their loving married relationship and I love her but I hate her sin.

    The point is not so long ago that this site itself would be considered sin. There even is a time where one would be banished or worse for promoting it and we harshly castigated for reading it. Somehow, someway we made the decision that we did not believe what was being told to us. We looked at the passages in scripture (far more than anti-homosexual) and decided they didn’t apply or were twisted or taken out of context. When these views discriminated against us and our relationships we decided they did not apply. Why is it that it is so hard to do the same when it applies to others?

  44. Susan, exactly. Distorting God’s word for personal gain is hatred, hatred towards God! I humbly plead with you (and am doing so myself), run to the word. I have yet to hear from you an argument from scripture to support what you claim to be true, but scripture does not support it.
    Jews were once considered to be sinners? Jews, Muslims, Americans, Red, yellow, black, and white, all are NOW, currently considered sinners unless they claim Christ’s work. We can’t argue about who is or isn’t a sinner because we all are.

    What concerns me most is that we’re more caught up in defending our own goodness than we are in humbly sitting before scripture and letting Jesus be our goodness. We are not good, friends, and we should not be surprised when we hear someone say that we aren’t. Someone bringing attention to our sinfulness might be offensive, but our own sin is magnitudes more offensive to our God, so let’s get that right first. I mean, He’s God. We’re not. Let’s stop making our own laws and let Him determine what is true. My pastor had a wise rule of thumb, “Where scripture speaks, speak. Where scripture is silent, be silent.” Scripture speaks on this friends, and I believe it would be foolish to ignore it or try to remake it to fit our own desires.

  45. How many times can we read in the Bible where Christ was given a complex question and His answer was as simple as can be. So to follow His example:

    Sex only within the confines of Marriage.
    Marriage is between a Man and a Woman.
    Adam and Eve, not Anna and Eve, or Adam and Steve. SIMPLE
    All the other arguements are covered by the “lesser” Commandments

  46. Perfectly said, carpentersdream!

  47. Susan, that was a repeat post. This doesn’t answer the questions I asked you. I listed specific scriptures where it is addressed in several forms, that homosexuality is considered among “the sinful nature” or “sinful passions”, that Jesus himself says that marriage is between a man and a woman. I have since looked up the greek/latin backgrounds on the verbs and nouns in the words I listed. You haven’t offered any evidence to support what you are saying. You are not listing the scriptures, yet you plead and compel us to disregard scripture. I’m asking you to show me where scripture says what you’re saying because I certainly don’t see it, and I’m asking you to stop asking anyone to disregard scripture which is written for their good. I’ll stop here and give you a chance to respond.

  48. I do not plan on further responding because the fact is I HAVE responded. Numerous times. Those who are able to hear what I said I’m sure did. Those who didn’t I’m not sure what else I can do. I’m not planning on backing down from my belief that a homosexual in a loving committed relationship is doing no more wrong than a heterosexual in a loving committed relationship. I also believe that twisting scripture to promote bigotry is wrong.

    In my heart I know that a loving God could only agree with me.

    And for the record I pleaded with no one to disregard scripture. All I did was encourage learning more about how the bible has been translated throughout the centuries and the context in which it was written.

  49. Since Susan Anthony has satiated that she doesn’t wish to continue in this discussion we will no longer be approving comments directed towards her. Thank you.

  50. Hi, I have not read all of the previous comments, but I have a feeling my opinion will not be very popular…..I feel compelled to give it anyway! I really, really feel that the Bible was a book written by men, to the people and culture of that time. I believe it was inspired, ABSOLUTELY, but I believe it was more in the way that my pastor is inspired every week to write a sermon, and less in the way that God took over the writers’ conscious and actually spoke through them. I believe the bible is not God. Anyway, anyone who says the bible is simple is not telling the truth. Even for Bible scholars who have been studying for years, it is not a simple thing. And even then, they are viewing the Bible in the light of whatever Bible college they went to, and the points of view of all their professors. Even now we rely on various commentaries, etc., to help us, and depending on which commentary we go with, we can get a totally different take on something! Most of us will go with someone we trust, which mostly just means someone our pastor approves of, or someone we know pretty much agrees with us. Anyway, there are so many things in the Bible that we have dismissed as cultural, and I’m sorry, but once you have started down that path, (which we have, whether we admit it or not), where do you draw the line? Why is women not speaking in church a cultural thing (I realize some churches still practice this), but the verses applying to homosexuality are forever? It is my opinion that science and the Bible are not mutually exclusive. I think God gave us our brains and curiosity to use, and when science shows us something, instead of shunning it because we thought God’s word said something else, we should use it to re-shape our understanding of what God’s word says. In the past, those who insisted the sun didn’t revolve around the earth, and rise and set were called heretics.Galileo was placed under house arrest for his beliefs. To be fair, the Bible specifically says in a few places that the sun rose or set. We know it doesn’t. Could it have been said differently, so we wouldn’t be confused? Sure. But it wasn’t. Which leads me to believe that the writers of the Bible did the best with the limited information they had at the time about the way the world worked. Also, abortion was not so looked down upon as it is now until pretty recently in the church. Not so long ago, it was permissible until quickening, because the common thought was that when you can feel the baby move, that’s when it’s alive. With modern technology now, we know this to not be the case. We know it begins much earlier. So many Christians now consider abortion to be murder. Here are two cases where we have taken science and allowed it to shape our view of what the Bible has said. I think homosexuality should be no different. If science seems to be saying that there are biological factors in determining someone’s sexuality, we shouldn’t stick our fingers in our ears. (And science is saying that, despite what we might hear in church.) If millions of homosexual people around the world who are facing bullying, homelessness, being cut off from their churches and families, are telling us that they have been this way for as long as they can remember, and that they didn’t choose it, and no matter how hard they try they can’t change it…..I think we should take them at their word and at least admit there is a slim chance we might be wrong. (I also feel compelled to mention that the whole “One man, one woman” thing is not very well supported by the Bible….more like one man, four women, and thirty concubines! And even if this was not God’s ideal plan for the men at that time-he allowed it. It was not sinful. Yet we would not advocate for polygamy now!) Anyway, that’s my two cents, and I hope it can be taken with a grain of salt. I’m not trying to attack anyone’s beliefs, I just feel pretty passionate about the subject. I’m straight and married, but God has given me an intense love for gay people, which spurred me to a year long study and re-evaluation of my beliefs on the subject.

  51. This is a topic very close to my heart, an I agree wholeheartedly with Cinnamon Sticks’ view on this. Homosexual behavior is a sin, but so is the greed, selfishness, and pride that we all struggle with. It should be dealt with as a sin, but the higher call is to love. I have an aunt and an uncle who are both gay, and my uncle is dying of AIDS…an example of the consequences of sin, I believe, however sad. What I have a hard time understanding is that they both at least claim to be saved…and they continue in their lifestyle, though they’ve been confronted numerous times about God’s stance on sex. It saddens me a lot, and I am looking forward to this series, hoping it will shed new light on the subject for me.

  52. Looking forward to this series, Cinnamon Sticks! I have personally struggled with same sex attraction on and off in my life… and whether I lusted after a man or a woman, who wasn’t my husband was both sinful, not one more extreme than the other. It grieves me to read some of the comments here, especially since these are the topics that divide people with such anger and judgement… but I do trust that God will be glorified through these posts and hearts will be pursued. God is bigger than what we know He is… and He’s gracious! Hallelujah!

  53. As someone who is well studied over scripture and read the greek and hebrew I must tell you the Bible is clear that homosexuality is not Gods plan for us. As someone who has struggled with same sex attraction and wanted to really believe that to people in love is what it is and is good it seems scripture is pretty clear. The sin of onan was not about masterbation it was about pulling out and refusing to his marital duty of giving his wife a son. Not having sex on the mensus is what it is. inter-racial marriage had more to do about religion and culture then about the race it self. The new testement changes someone of the rules suddenly paul sounds as if hes not requiring gentiles to follow Jewish customs ( Rabbinical law)….Romans 8:1-3
    1 Corinthians 9:20-21 but he still mentions homosexuality among the offenders 1st Corinthians 6:9-11. Now I know the verse in Corinthians can be translated a few ways. Some people say that word that suggests homosexual is Malakos which means soft to touch ( a male prostitute or a boy kept at a pagen temple for sexual pleasure?) others argue the word is Arsenokoites ( a person who engages in any kind of unatural sex but mainly refering to homosexual intercourse). Okay….I see the lost in translation thing but what about Romans 1:25-27 ? They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served created things rather than the creator….. because of this God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. ?

    I would like to believe that it doesn’t matter who we fall in love with who we express that to but I feel the scripture is clear.
    This is a terrible struggle one of the worsts and I have it. Its not that its a worse sin its that its the one thing that gets you kicked out of leadership in the church its the one thing you can do that nobody will ever look at you the same. Its the one thing that if you share with somoene you feel you have to watch your back because if it gets out you may never be able to serve God in the church. For the unchurched or the people that can’t reconcile both…what a terrible thing to be with someone you love and for that to be wrong. This is an incredible hurtful issue for everyone involved and should be talked about but its really tough.

  54. I just stumbled upon this website this morning. First off, I wanted to thank the writers of this website for being so open and honest about their sexuality and addressing the subject of sex within marriage from a Christian standpoint. There are time I have questions that I just don’t feel comfortable discussing with my pastor and the ladies at church and it’s nice to have a safe forum to come to find the answers.

    I have been bisexual as long as I can remember. My physical attraction has actually always been stronger towards women than men. In my younger days I dated my fair share of women and men but eventually I fell in love with a man and married him and we have a happy marriage and beautiful children. I have friends who fell in love with a same sex partner and have married or live in a committed relationship with that partner, and friends who fell in love and married a partner of the opposite sex.

    I struggle with the hot-button issue of whether or not it is sinful to be gay, lesbian or bisexual. I have heard the arguments for pro-gay marriage: The argument that Lev. 20:13 does not apply because it is an Old Testament law which was replaced by the New Testament when Jesus came, that Sodom and Gomorrah was not a condemnation of the act of homosexual sex but rather the act of rape, and that Rom. 1:26-27 was added later and was not an original part of the New Testament. I have also heard many MANY other people argue that the Bible is God’s word, divinely inspired, and is therefore perfect.

    Personally, I feel that while the Bible was divinely inspired it was transcribed by man and and translated by man multiple times and is therefore fallible. Whether or not homosexuality is a sin, I don’t know. I’m not willing to pass judgement. I feel that is a personal issue that every gay, lesbian or bisexual man or woman needs to take up with God.

    That being said, in my own personal life I chose to pursue men because I wanted children and I felt it would be easier and more beneficial for my children to have a traditional family unit. By the grace of God I fell in love and married an amazing man and I have committed myself to him and I choose to be faithful to him above all others. So when I find myself attracted to someone else, whether man or woman, I take those feelings of arousal and direct them towards my husband.

  55. No, science supports no such thing. For instance, the twin study did not support identical twins both being hetero or homosexual.
    Why do people decide if we have an inclination when we are young that is therefore a “natural yearning” ? We are born with a sinful nature, that is what we are Born with! Very few of my desires as a child or the years coming adolescence are anything but selfish, immature wanderings.
    I hope in time you see that God did not leave us here without the anchor of His Word to guide us. He loves us all, we all sin, and Christ died for all- no matter what our sins are.

  56. One thing to remember about the Bible is it was written in Hebrew and Greek and Aramaic- and in those original languages it is exactly what it should be. I recommend reading one of Lee Strobels books on The Case for The Bible.
    When we found the Dead Sea Scrolls in the last century scholars were amazed at the very early translations and how they confirmed the transcripts we already have. And read how the Old testament prophecies were fulfilled when they were written hundreds of years before the fact! I’m making a poor attempt to share with you that .you can rely on God and His Word- including the written word. Men always think they are wise but we’re truly not. Let’s not lean on our own understanding, but by every Word that comes from God!

  57. Actually, two of the books are entitled, “The Case for Christ” and “The Case for Faith.”.


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